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	<title>Comments on: Mandatory internet filtering. It&#8217;s not a debate.</title>
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	<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/</link>
	<description>I know a little bit about a lot of things.</description>
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		<title>By: jackalopekid</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>jackalopekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-640</guid>
		<description>totally agree. its something trying to stop the problem, but not a solution to the problem. clean looking blog too btw. catch ya on twitter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>totally agree. its something trying to stop the problem, but not a solution to the problem. clean looking blog too btw. catch ya on twitter</p>
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		<title>By: The Fragile Twitter Ecosystem- Social Media Marketing Flu</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fragile Twitter Ecosystem- Social Media Marketing Flu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-626</guid>
		<description>[...] will leave the waters or close the networks&#8230;Case in point I read a Tweet from WarWraith ( Warwick Rendell)who suspected he was getting many followers because he mentioned &#8220;networking marketing&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will leave the waters or close the networks&#8230;Case in point I read a Tweet from WarWraith ( Warwick Rendell)who suspected he was getting many followers because he mentioned &#8220;networking marketing&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What can we do about mandatory Internet filtering? &#124; aaron552.syte.cc</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>What can we do about mandatory Internet filtering? &#124; aaron552.syte.cc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-625</guid>
		<description>[...] This blog post raises a valid point: &#8220;if we don’t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This blog post raises a valid point: &#8220;if we don’t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian &#183; What now for Senator Conroy and the Magic Filter?</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-611</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian &#183; What now for Senator Conroy and the Magic Filter?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-611</guid>
		<description>[...] a well-written and well-worth-reading essay, Rendell says we &#8212; that is the people tearing apart the stupidity of the Rabbit-Proof [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a well-written and well-worth-reading essay, Rendell says we &#8212; that is the people tearing apart the stupidity of the Rabbit-Proof [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-610</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-610</guid>
		<description>Syd&#039;s hit this one on the head. What exactly is the problem we are trying to solve? Is there actually a problem in the first place? Why is it now that we need this solution where for the last decade or more we have ignored &quot;the problem(s)&quot;? Secondly we don&#039;t have to provide any solutions to perceived or real problems as the solutions already exist such as PC filters and companies that provide ISP level filtering. This has been reiterated over and over again by those opposed to censorship. Thirdly, someone made mention that the parents should take more responsibility line is not an answer. Sorry, but that&#039;s what being a parent is all about; parenting. It&#039;s rather easy to move the computer into the lounge room where you can see it and stick a password on it so the kids can only use it when you want them too. And as for being computer literate, people can learn, however it is up to them to get off their arses and do it, just like I had to. Ignorance and laziness is no excuse really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Syd&#8217;s hit this one on the head. What exactly is the problem we are trying to solve? Is there actually a problem in the first place? Why is it now that we need this solution where for the last decade or more we have ignored &#8220;the problem(s)&#8221;? Secondly we don&#8217;t have to provide any solutions to perceived or real problems as the solutions already exist such as PC filters and companies that provide ISP level filtering. This has been reiterated over and over again by those opposed to censorship. Thirdly, someone made mention that the parents should take more responsibility line is not an answer. Sorry, but that&#8217;s what being a parent is all about; parenting. It&#8217;s rather easy to move the computer into the lounge room where you can see it and stick a password on it so the kids can only use it when you want them too. And as for being computer literate, people can learn, however it is up to them to get off their arses and do it, just like I had to. Ignorance and laziness is no excuse really.</p>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>Syd Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-608</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt; So the government has decided that we need to be stopped from seeing the illegal stuff. And that’s one of the things we elected them to do. No, really.

Huh? We elected the ghovernment to govern well and wisely. At least, that&#039;s what they said they do.

The Rudd Government has no mandate for its proposed Internet censorship scheme. It slipped in under the radar. There was effectively no debate about this in the lead up to the last election.

I agree with other folk who&#039;ve commented that in order to devise a &#039;solution&#039;, the &#039;problem&#039; must be clearly defined. What is &#039;the problem&#039;? It&#039;s not clear to me that if you get any two proponents of censorship together they&#039;d agree about that.

That&#039;s a problem... with censorship.

Mr Bolt seems to want &#039;jihadi sites banned&#039;. Conroy says he only wants &#039;the worst of the worst&#039; child porn banned. ACMA applies God knows what criteria - and whatever they are, does so incompetently. Jim Wallace would doubtless have another hit list. So would Hamilton.

To say &quot;we must solve the problem&quot; is like saying, at the time of the Salem witch trials, that if you don&#039;t like putting witches on trial, come up with another &#039;solution&#039;.

As we now know, with the benefit of hindsight, the solution was to stop inventing witches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt; So the government has decided that we need to be stopped from seeing the illegal stuff. And that’s one of the things we elected them to do. No, really.</p>
<p>Huh? We elected the ghovernment to govern well and wisely. At least, that&#8217;s what they said they do.</p>
<p>The Rudd Government has no mandate for its proposed Internet censorship scheme. It slipped in under the radar. There was effectively no debate about this in the lead up to the last election.</p>
<p>I agree with other folk who&#8217;ve commented that in order to devise a &#8217;solution&#8217;, the &#8216;problem&#8217; must be clearly defined. What is &#8216;the problem&#8217;? It&#8217;s not clear to me that if you get any two proponents of censorship together they&#8217;d agree about that.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a problem&#8230; with censorship.</p>
<p>Mr Bolt seems to want &#8216;jihadi sites banned&#8217;. Conroy says he only wants &#8216;the worst of the worst&#8217; child porn banned. ACMA applies God knows what criteria &#8211; and whatever they are, does so incompetently. Jim Wallace would doubtless have another hit list. So would Hamilton.</p>
<p>To say &#8220;we must solve the problem&#8221; is like saying, at the time of the Salem witch trials, that if you don&#8217;t like putting witches on trial, come up with another &#8217;solution&#8217;.</p>
<p>As we now know, with the benefit of hindsight, the solution was to stop inventing witches.</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian &#183; Links for 19 March 2009 through 28 March 2009</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian &#183; Links for 19 March 2009 through 28 March 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-605</guid>
		<description>[...] Mandatory internet filtering. It&#8217;s not a debate. &#124; Wazzapedia: In summary: The pro-filter lobby are offering a solution to the &#8220;problem&#8221;. It&#8217;s not enough for the anti-censorship campaign to demolish their argument &#8212; if we don&#8217;t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mandatory internet filtering. It&#8217;s not a debate. | Wazzapedia: In summary: The pro-filter lobby are offering a solution to the &#8220;problem&#8221;. It&#8217;s not enough for the anti-censorship campaign to demolish their argument &#8212; if we don&#8217;t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stilgherrian &#183; Links for 16 March 2009 through 22 March 2009</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Stilgherrian &#183; Links for 16 March 2009 through 22 March 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-600</guid>
		<description>[...] Mandatory internet filtering. It&#8217;s not a debate. &#124; Wazzapedia: In summary: The pro-filter lobby are offering a solution to the &#8220;problem&#8221;. It&#8217;s not enough for the anti-censorship campaign to demolish their argument &#8212; if we don&#8217;t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mandatory internet filtering. It&#8217;s not a debate. | Wazzapedia: In summary: The pro-filter lobby are offering a solution to the &#8220;problem&#8221;. It&#8217;s not enough for the anti-censorship campaign to demolish their argument &#8212; if we don&#8217;t start offering an alternative workable solution as part of our strategy, we will ultimately fail. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Outtrim</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Outtrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-599</guid>
		<description>Why stop at the Internet? When will they start censoring our phone calls and SMSes? I don&#039;t buy the argument that &quot;it&#039;s OK because the government already bans and censors many things&quot;

Reminds me of Demolition Man, every time they swear, the fine spits out of the wall.

In Australia we do not have the same rights of freedom of speech that the Americans claim from their constitution. This plan for an Internet filter further takes our country away from a free and open society, and is likely to be abused in the future for political ends. 

Filtering means tracking what sites everyone looks at - which is already done, this just makes it easier and gives a more clear-cut legal and technical framework for the government to do it.

We know how much K-Rudd loves China, and they&#039;re a big market for our minerals. But that doesn&#039;t mean Australian society should become more like Chinese society, or that we should try to block sites on the Internet like they do. 

This is a step backward for Australia. Criminals will get around it, and find ways to get the content they want. Just like when I was 13, I somehow found a way to look at some X-rated content.

We should use all the technology at our disposal to shut down the kiddie porn, hate sites, and how-to-make-a-bomb etc... at the source. Get it off the Internet by locking up the producers. A blanket filter imposed on everyone, will not stop these things in our society - in the same way that prohibition doesn&#039;t stop consumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why stop at the Internet? When will they start censoring our phone calls and SMSes? I don&#8217;t buy the argument that &#8220;it&#8217;s OK because the government already bans and censors many things&#8221;</p>
<p>Reminds me of Demolition Man, every time they swear, the fine spits out of the wall.</p>
<p>In Australia we do not have the same rights of freedom of speech that the Americans claim from their constitution. This plan for an Internet filter further takes our country away from a free and open society, and is likely to be abused in the future for political ends. </p>
<p>Filtering means tracking what sites everyone looks at &#8211; which is already done, this just makes it easier and gives a more clear-cut legal and technical framework for the government to do it.</p>
<p>We know how much K-Rudd loves China, and they&#8217;re a big market for our minerals. But that doesn&#8217;t mean Australian society should become more like Chinese society, or that we should try to block sites on the Internet like they do. </p>
<p>This is a step backward for Australia. Criminals will get around it, and find ways to get the content they want. Just like when I was 13, I somehow found a way to look at some X-rated content.</p>
<p>We should use all the technology at our disposal to shut down the kiddie porn, hate sites, and how-to-make-a-bomb etc&#8230; at the source. Get it off the Internet by locking up the producers. A blanket filter imposed on everyone, will not stop these things in our society &#8211; in the same way that prohibition doesn&#8217;t stop consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Asmo</title>
		<link>http://www.warwickrendell.com/2009/03/20/mandatory-internet-filtering-its-not-a-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-597</link>
		<dc:creator>Asmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 06:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warwickrendell.com/?p=100#comment-597</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d ask why we have to come up with a solution...

We are not invading their privacy or denying them access to anything.

We are not flushing millions down the toilet on a scheme we know won&#039;t work.

We aren&#039;t accusing them of being child porn supporters.

There are plenty of filter products and a few (because they are mostly unsuccessful and fail) clean feed ISP&#039;s.  If a person is incapable of home filtering, they can buy a filtered feed...

Your motivation is pure but your idea is made of the same stuff that Conroy&#039;s are.  &quot;We must offer a solution to cater for the incapable&quot;.  Why?  

So we can legitimately enter this debate?  Rubbish, we got that right when they started to dictate to us what we could do.

So we can fritter away our rights piecemeal rather than a large bite at a time?  Think back to Alston and the compromises made then that puts the government closer to it&#039;s goal of censorship now (regardless of which party is running it).

The absolute best I would be willing to even consider at this point is:

-immediate reinstatement of the 2.8 million trimmed off the OCSET budget by Rudd&#039;s razor gang.

-an equipment subsidy to allow ISP&#039;s to install cleanfeed gear voluntarily.  The ISP would then be able to market cleanfeed plans without a large chunk of capital invested in equipment (meaning if they don&#039;t get customers, they don&#039;t lose as much cash).  The ISP should have a contractual right to disconnect the system at any point in time that they want to and/or remove clean feed plans if they prove unprofitable.

C&#039;est fin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d ask why we have to come up with a solution&#8230;</p>
<p>We are not invading their privacy or denying them access to anything.</p>
<p>We are not flushing millions down the toilet on a scheme we know won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>We aren&#8217;t accusing them of being child porn supporters.</p>
<p>There are plenty of filter products and a few (because they are mostly unsuccessful and fail) clean feed ISP&#8217;s.  If a person is incapable of home filtering, they can buy a filtered feed&#8230;</p>
<p>Your motivation is pure but your idea is made of the same stuff that Conroy&#8217;s are.  &#8220;We must offer a solution to cater for the incapable&#8221;.  Why?  </p>
<p>So we can legitimately enter this debate?  Rubbish, we got that right when they started to dictate to us what we could do.</p>
<p>So we can fritter away our rights piecemeal rather than a large bite at a time?  Think back to Alston and the compromises made then that puts the government closer to it&#8217;s goal of censorship now (regardless of which party is running it).</p>
<p>The absolute best I would be willing to even consider at this point is:</p>
<p>-immediate reinstatement of the 2.8 million trimmed off the OCSET budget by Rudd&#8217;s razor gang.</p>
<p>-an equipment subsidy to allow ISP&#8217;s to install cleanfeed gear voluntarily.  The ISP would then be able to market cleanfeed plans without a large chunk of capital invested in equipment (meaning if they don&#8217;t get customers, they don&#8217;t lose as much cash).  The ISP should have a contractual right to disconnect the system at any point in time that they want to and/or remove clean feed plans if they prove unprofitable.</p>
<p>C&#8217;est fin.</p>
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